Should I shut down this list?
David Cooke
dave at david-cooke.me.uk
Thu Sep 28 15:42:03 BST 2023
I think the only thing that makes me a "member" of the CSG is membership
of this list. Or is it the csg-announce at lists.wookware.org list? I
wouldn't want to loose that.
In practice I think most of the discussion takes place on Facebook
although I wouldn't recommend it. It has the worst search ever. It is
virtually impossible to look back through old postings in any kind of
sensible way. It is like a river of ephemeral information flowing past
rather than building into a library of useful knowledge.
Cookie
PS Actually the BBC's search might be worse.
On 28/09/2023 15:00, David Cooke wrote:
>
> Can we change the subject back to the original more meaningful one please?
>
> There, I've done it for you :-)
>
> Cheers
>
> Cookie
>
>
> On 28/09/2023 14:56, Graham Mullan wrote:
>>
>> Blitz
>>
>> I very much doubt that FB would be suitable, quite apart from being
>> unpalatable to some. I’m not on it, but I understand that it is
>> structured more by their algorithms than by the form of the
>> discussion that you wish to have.
>>
>> Graham
>>
>> *From:*Chris Smart <chris_smart at talktalk.net>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2023 2:43 PM
>> *To:* Graham Mullan <graham.mullan at coly.org.uk>
>> *Cc:* cave-surveying at survex.com
>> *Subject:* RE: Cave-Surveying Digest, Vol 49, Issue 1
>>
>> A thought - but maybe an unpalatable one. A private FB group might
>> be the/an answer. The admin would be minimal and the postings would
>> be searchable.
>>
>> Blitz
>>
>> On 28 Sept 2023 14:12, Graham Mullan <graham.mullan at coly.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>> How many subscribers are there? Is it likely that new subscribers
>> can be found?
>>
>> Jeskynar asked what alternative places people use to talk about
>> surveying and I think this is a key question. Email lists of this
>> type are fairly poorly structured for ongoing discussions and
>> archival searches and better alternatives are available. The
>> problem is that any of the alternatives require the use of some
>> proprietary software or 'walled garden' private services and I
>> know that many of you have problems with that. I suspect that if
>> that objection can be overcome then something like Discord might
>> fulfil the brief rather better.
>>
>> Graham
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Cave-Surveying <cave-surveying-bounces at survex.com> On
>> Behalf Of cave-surveying-request at survex.com
>> Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2023 12:00 PM
>> To: cave-surveying at survex.com
>> Subject: Cave-Surveying Digest, Vol 49, Issue 1
>>
>> Send Cave-Surveying mailing list submissions to
>> cave-surveying at survex.com
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>>
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>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
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>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Should I shut down this list? (Olly Betts)
>> 2. Re: Should I shut down this list? (Andrew Atkinson)
>> 3. Re: Should I shut down this list? (Jeskynar)
>> 4. Re: Should I shut down this list? (Mike Lake)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 00:09:45 +0100
>> From: Olly Betts <olly at survex.com>
>> To: cave-surveying at survex.com
>> Subject: Should I shut down this list?
>> Message-ID: <20230927230945.GH3507 at survex.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> It seems this list is no longer being actively used - the
>> archives show only one message in the last two years, but it's
>> been in decline for much longer:
>>
>> * 2021 saw 2 threads (but one really belonged on the survex list)
>>
>> * 2020 saw 5 threads (but two really belonged on the survex list)
>>
>> * 2019 saw 4 threads (but one really belonged on the therion list)
>>
>> * 2018 saw 1 message
>>
>> * 2017 and 2016 saw no messages
>>
>> So really very little use for a long time (and ~30% of the use it
>> sees would have been better sent to a more specific list instead).
>>
>> There's a small but non-zero admin effort to keeping the list
>> running - messages from non-subscribers and subscription requests
>> are held for checking and I have to periodically look over them
>> and delete the vast majority as spam. There seems to have been a
>> significant uptick in subscription requests in the last month
>> most of which look bogus, and this is making me wonder why I'm
>> spending time on this.
>>
>> So is it really worth me keeping this list active?
>>
>> I know Wookey has mentioned wanting to use it more and has tried
>> to encourage more people to subscribe, but that hasn't actually
>> translated into people actually using it so seems to have been a
>> failed idea.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Olly
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 08:09:42 +0200
>> From: Andrew Atkinson <andrew at wotcc.org.uk>
>> To: cave-surveying at survex.com
>> Subject: Re: Should I shut down this list?
>> Message-ID: <C7E17D3E-5215-4988-A0E6-10627DEDE37E at wotcc.org.uk>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>> I tend to use the list to announce cave surveying group meetings
>> and publish minutes. Both of which have not happened for the last
>> few years due to there being no Hidden Earth.
>>
>> It would be a shame not to have it, but it doesn't really look
>> like there is much justification for keeping it
>>
>> Andrew
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 08:20:03 +0100
>> From: Jeskynar <jeskynar at gmail.com>
>> To: cave-surveying at survex.com
>> Subject: Re: Should I shut down this list?
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAJ8UCwW=KWVsdh+gAPYQYStGP4EX_gJfDc5uej2KYGG9OYNZHA at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> What's the alternative place where people talk about cave surveying?
>>
>> On Thu, 28 Sept 2023 at 00:10, Olly Betts <olly at survex.com> wrote:
>>
>> > It seems this list is no longer being actively used - the archives
>> > show only one message in the last two years, but it's been in
>> decline
>> > for much longer:
>> >
>> > * 2021 saw 2 threads (but one really belonged on the survex list)
>> >
>> > * 2020 saw 5 threads (but two really belonged on the survex list)
>> >
>> > * 2019 saw 4 threads (but one really belonged on the therion list)
>> >
>> > * 2018 saw 1 message
>> >
>> > * 2017 and 2016 saw no messages
>> >
>> > So really very little use for a long time (and ~30% of the use
>> it sees
>> > would have been better sent to a more specific list instead).
>> >
>> > There's a small but non-zero admin effort to keeping the list
>> running
>> > - messages from non-subscribers and subscription requests are
>> held for
>> > checking and I have to periodically look over them and delete
>> the vast
>> > majority as spam. There seems to have been a significant
>> uptick in
>> > subscription requests in the last month most of which look
>> bogus, and
>> > this is making me wonder why I'm spending time on this.
>> >
>> > So is it really worth me keeping this list active?
>> >
>> > I know Wookey has mentioned wanting to use it more and has
>> tried to
>> > encourage more people to subscribe, but that hasn't actually
>> > translated into people actually using it so seems to have been a
>> > failed idea.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Olly
>> >
>> > --
>> > Cave-Surveying
>> > https://lists.survex.com/mailman/listinfo/cave-surveying
>> >
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 20:25:55 +1000
>> From: Mike Lake <mikel at speleonics.com.au>
>> To: cave-surveying at survex.com
>> Subject: Re: Should I shut down this list?
>> Message-ID: <e875b4ef8fc765cdba226c8744d6cb0d at speleonics.com.au>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>>
>> Hi Olly
>>
>> I read the list and yes, I have not seen much on it at all.
>> I can understand your wish to not maintain it. It does take time.
>> I gather the alternative would a 3rd party hosted, web based one.
>> A shame as I prefer plain email, but I do understand that the
>> email volume here does not justify the work involved.
>> A shame but I won't winge if you shut it down.
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Mike
>>
>> On 2023-09-28 9:09 am, Olly Betts wrote:
>> > It seems this list is no longer being actively used - the archives
>> > show only one message in the last two years, but it's been in
>> decline
>> > for much longer:
>> >
>> > * 2021 saw 2 threads (but one really belonged on the survex list)
>> >
>> > * 2020 saw 5 threads (but two really belonged on the survex list)
>> >
>> > * 2019 saw 4 threads (but one really belonged on the therion list)
>> >
>> > * 2018 saw 1 message
>> >
>> > * 2017 and 2016 saw no messages
>> >
>> > So really very little use for a long time (and ~30% of the use
>> it sees
>> > would have been better sent to a more specific list instead).
>> >
>> > There's a small but non-zero admin effort to keeping the list
>> running
>> > - messages from non-subscribers and subscription requests are
>> held for
>> > checking and I have to periodically look over them and delete
>> the vast
>> > majority as spam. There seems to have been a significant
>> uptick in
>> > subscription requests in the last month most of which look
>> bogus, and
>> > this is making me wonder why I'm spending time on this.
>> >
>> > So is it really worth me keeping this list active?
>> >
>> > I know Wookey has mentioned wanting to use it more and has
>> tried to
>> > encourage more people to subscribe, but that hasn't actually
>> > translated into people actually using it so seems to have been a
>> > failed idea.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Olly
>>
>> --
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> --
>> Cave-Surveying
>> https://lists.survex.com/mailman/listinfo/cave-surveying
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of Cave-Surveying Digest, Vol 49, Issue 1
>> *********************************************
>>
>> --
>> Cave-Surveying
>> https://lists.survex.com/mailman/listinfo/cave-surveying
>>
>>
> --
> David Cooke
> Axbridge, Somerset, England
>
--
David Cooke
Axbridge, Somerset, England
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