<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p>I think the only thing that makes me a "member" of the CSG is
membership of this list. Or is it the <a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:csg-announce@lists.wookware.org">csg-announce@lists.wookware.org</a>
list? I wouldn't want to loose that.<br>
</p>
<p>In practice I think most of the discussion takes place on
Facebook although I wouldn't recommend it. It has the worst search
ever. It is virtually impossible to look back through old postings
in any kind of sensible way. It is like a river of ephemeral
information flowing past rather than building into a library of
useful knowledge.</p>
<p>Cookie</p>
<p>PS Actually the BBC's search might be worse.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 28/09/2023 15:00, David Cooke wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:c588812d-8acf-5a0b-01c7-86be9afe9e26@david-cooke.me.uk">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p>Can we change the subject back to the original more meaningful
one please?</p>
<p>There, I've done it for you :-)</p>
<p>Cheers</p>
<p>Cookie<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 28/09/2023 14:56, Graham Mullan
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:LO2P123MB5016A2CE7F748A5DA90F476FAEC1A@LO2P123MB5016.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered
medium)">
<style>@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#0563C1;
text-decoration:underline;}span.EmailStyle21
{mso-style-type:personal-compose;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
mso-fareast-language:EN-US;}div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}</style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Blitz<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I
very much doubt that FB would be suitable, quite apart
from being unpalatable to some. I’m not on it, but I
understand that it is structured more by their algorithms
than by the form of the discussion that you wish to have.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Graham<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"> Chris Smart <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:chris_smart@talktalk.net"
moz-do-not-send="true"><chris_smart@talktalk.net></a>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 28, 2023 2:43 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Graham Mullan <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:graham.mullan@coly.org.uk"
moz-do-not-send="true"><graham.mullan@coly.org.uk></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated
moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:cave-surveying@survex.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">cave-surveying@survex.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Cave-Surveying Digest, Vol 49, Issue
1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">A thought - but maybe an unpalatable
one. A private FB group might be the/an answer. The
admin would be minimal and the postings would be
searchable. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Blitz<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 28 Sept 2023 14:12, Graham Mullan
<<a href="mailto:graham.mullan@coly.org.uk"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">graham.mullan@coly.org.uk</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p>How many subscribers are there? Is it likely that new
subscribers can be found? <br>
<br>
Jeskynar asked what alternative places people use to
talk about surveying and I think this is a key
question. Email lists of this type are fairly poorly
structured for ongoing discussions and archival
searches and better alternatives are available. The
problem is that any of the alternatives require the
use of some proprietary software or 'walled garden'
private services and I know that many of you have
problems with that. I suspect that if that objection
can be overcome then something like Discord might
fulfil the brief rather better. <br>
<br>
Graham <br>
<br>
-----Original Message----- <br>
From: Cave-Surveying <<a
href="mailto:cave-surveying-bounces@survex.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cave-surveying-bounces@survex.com</a>>
On Behalf Of <a
href="mailto:cave-surveying-request@survex.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cave-surveying-request@survex.com</a>
<br>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2023 12:00 PM <br>
To: <a href="mailto:cave-surveying@survex.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cave-surveying@survex.com</a>
<br>
Subject: Cave-Surveying Digest, Vol 49, Issue 1 <br>
<br>
Send Cave-Surveying mailing list submissions to <br>
<a href="mailto:cave-surveying@survex.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cave-surveying@survex.com</a>
<br>
<br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web,
visit <br>
<a
href="https://lists.survex.com/mailman/listinfo/cave-surveying"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.survex.com/mailman/listinfo/cave-surveying</a>
<br>
or, via email, send a message with subject or body
'help' to <br>
<a href="mailto:cave-surveying-request@survex.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cave-surveying-request@survex.com</a>
<br>
<br>
You can reach the person managing the list at <br>
<a href="mailto:cave-surveying-owner@survex.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cave-surveying-owner@survex.com</a>
<br>
<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is
more specific than "Re: Contents of Cave-Surveying
digest..." <br>
<br>
<br>
Today's Topics: <br>
<br>
1. Should I shut down this list? (Olly Betts) <br>
2. Re: Should I shut down this list? (Andrew
Atkinson) <br>
3. Re: Should I shut down this list? (Jeskynar) <br>
4. Re: Should I shut down this list? (Mike Lake) <br>
<br>
<br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------- <br>
<br>
Message: 1 <br>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 00:09:45 +0100 <br>
From: Olly Betts <<a href="mailto:olly@survex.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">olly@survex.com</a>>
<br>
To: <a href="mailto:cave-surveying@survex.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cave-surveying@survex.com</a>
<br>
Subject: Should I shut down this list? <br>
Message-ID: <<a
href="mailto:20230927230945.GH3507@survex.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">20230927230945.GH3507@survex.com</a>>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii <br>
<br>
It seems this list is no longer being actively used -
the archives show only one message in the last two
years, but it's been in decline for much longer: <br>
<br>
* 2021 saw 2 threads (but one really belonged on the
survex list) <br>
<br>
* 2020 saw 5 threads (but two really belonged on the
survex list) <br>
<br>
* 2019 saw 4 threads (but one really belonged on the
therion list) <br>
<br>
* 2018 saw 1 message <br>
<br>
* 2017 and 2016 saw no messages <br>
<br>
So really very little use for a long time (and ~30% of
the use it sees would have been better sent to a more
specific list instead). <br>
<br>
There's a small but non-zero admin effort to keeping
the list running - messages from non-subscribers and
subscription requests are held for checking and I have
to periodically look over them and delete the vast
majority as spam. There seems to have been a
significant uptick in subscription requests in the
last month most of which look bogus, and this is
making me wonder why I'm spending time on this. <br>
<br>
So is it really worth me keeping this list active? <br>
<br>
I know Wookey has mentioned wanting to use it more and
has tried to encourage more people to subscribe, but
that hasn't actually translated into people actually
using it so seems to have been a failed idea. <br>
<br>
Cheers, <br>
Olly <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------ <br>
<br>
Message: 2 <br>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 08:09:42 +0200 <br>
From: Andrew Atkinson <<a
href="mailto:andrew@wotcc.org.uk"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">andrew@wotcc.org.uk</a>>
<br>
To: <a href="mailto:cave-surveying@survex.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cave-surveying@survex.com</a>
<br>
Subject: Re: Should I shut down this list? <br>
Message-ID: <<a
href="mailto:C7E17D3E-5215-4988-A0E6-10627DEDE37E@wotcc.org.uk"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">C7E17D3E-5215-4988-A0E6-10627DEDE37E@wotcc.org.uk</a>>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 <br>
<br>
I tend to use the list to announce cave surveying
group meetings and publish minutes. Both of which have
not happened for the last few years due to there being
no Hidden Earth. <br>
<br>
It would be a shame not to have it, but it doesn't
really look like there is much justification for
keeping it <br>
<br>
Andrew <br>
-- <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------ <br>
<br>
Message: 3 <br>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 08:20:03 +0100 <br>
From: Jeskynar <<a href="mailto:jeskynar@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jeskynar@gmail.com</a>>
<br>
To: <a href="mailto:cave-surveying@survex.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cave-surveying@survex.com</a>
<br>
Subject: Re: Should I shut down this list? <br>
Message-ID: <br>
<<a
href="mailto:CAJ8UCwW=KWVsdh+gAPYQYStGP4EX_gJfDc5uej2KYGG9OYNZHA@mail.gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">CAJ8UCwW=KWVsdh+gAPYQYStGP4EX_gJfDc5uej2KYGG9OYNZHA@mail.gmail.com</a>>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" <br>
<br>
What's the alternative place where people talk about
cave surveying? <br>
<br>
On Thu, 28 Sept 2023 at 00:10, Olly Betts <<a
href="mailto:olly@survex.com" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">olly@survex.com</a>>
wrote: <br>
<br>
> It seems this list is no longer being actively
used - the archives <br>
> show only one message in the last two years, but
it's been in decline <br>
> for much longer: <br>
> <br>
> * 2021 saw 2 threads (but one really belonged on
the survex list) <br>
> <br>
> * 2020 saw 5 threads (but two really belonged on
the survex list) <br>
> <br>
> * 2019 saw 4 threads (but one really belonged on
the therion list) <br>
> <br>
> * 2018 saw 1 message <br>
> <br>
> * 2017 and 2016 saw no messages <br>
> <br>
> So really very little use for a long time (and
~30% of the use it sees <br>
> would have been better sent to a more specific
list instead). <br>
> <br>
> There's a small but non-zero admin effort to
keeping the list running <br>
> - messages from non-subscribers and subscription
requests are held for <br>
> checking and I have to periodically look over
them and delete the vast <br>
> majority as spam. There seems to have been a
significant uptick in <br>
> subscription requests in the last month most of
which look bogus, and <br>
> this is making me wonder why I'm spending time on
this. <br>
> <br>
> So is it really worth me keeping this list
active? <br>
> <br>
> I know Wookey has mentioned wanting to use it
more and has tried to <br>
> encourage more people to subscribe, but that
hasn't actually <br>
> translated into people actually using it so seems
to have been a <br>
> failed idea. <br>
> <br>
> Cheers, <br>
> Olly <br>
> <br>
> -- <br>
> Cave-Surveying <br>
> <a
href="https://lists.survex.com/mailman/listinfo/cave-surveying"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.survex.com/mailman/listinfo/cave-surveying</a>
<br>
> <br>
-------------- next part -------------- <br>
An HTML attachment was scrubbed... <br>
URL: <<a
href="http://lists.survex.com/pipermail/cave-surveying/attachments/20230928/73d6d566/attachment-0001.htm"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://lists.survex.com/pipermail/cave-surveying/attachments/20230928/73d6d566/attachment-0001.htm</a>>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------ <br>
<br>
Message: 4 <br>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 20:25:55 +1000 <br>
From: Mike Lake <<a
href="mailto:mikel@speleonics.com.au"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">mikel@speleonics.com.au</a>>
<br>
To: <a href="mailto:cave-surveying@survex.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cave-surveying@survex.com</a>
<br>
Subject: Re: Should I shut down this list? <br>
Message-ID: <<a
href="mailto:e875b4ef8fc765cdba226c8744d6cb0d@speleonics.com.au"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">e875b4ef8fc765cdba226c8744d6cb0d@speleonics.com.au</a>>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII;
format=flowed <br>
<br>
Hi Olly <br>
<br>
I read the list and yes, I have not seen much on it at
all. <br>
I can understand your wish to not maintain it. It does
take time. <br>
I gather the alternative would a 3rd party hosted, web
based one. A shame as I prefer plain email, but I do
understand that the email volume here does not justify
the work involved. <br>
A shame but I won't winge if you shut it down. <br>
<br>
Best wishes <br>
Mike <br>
<br>
On 2023-09-28 9:09 am, Olly Betts wrote: <br>
> It seems this list is no longer being actively
used - the archives <br>
> show only one message in the last two years, but
it's been in decline <br>
> for much longer: <br>
> <br>
> * 2021 saw 2 threads (but one really belonged on
the survex list) <br>
> <br>
> * 2020 saw 5 threads (but two really belonged on
the survex list) <br>
> <br>
> * 2019 saw 4 threads (but one really belonged on
the therion list) <br>
> <br>
> * 2018 saw 1 message <br>
> <br>
> * 2017 and 2016 saw no messages <br>
> <br>
> So really very little use for a long time (and
~30% of the use it sees <br>
> would have been better sent to a more specific
list instead). <br>
> <br>
> There's a small but non-zero admin effort to
keeping the list running <br>
> - messages from non-subscribers and subscription
requests are held for <br>
> checking and I have to periodically look over
them and delete the vast <br>
> majority as spam. There seems to have been a
significant uptick in <br>
> subscription requests in the last month most of
which look bogus, and <br>
> this is making me wonder why I'm spending time on
this. <br>
> <br>
> So is it really worth me keeping this list
active? <br>
> <br>
> I know Wookey has mentioned wanting to use it
more and has tried to <br>
> encourage more people to subscribe, but that
hasn't actually <br>
> translated into people actually using it so seems
to have been a <br>
> failed idea. <br>
> <br>
> Cheers, <br>
> Olly <br>
<br>
-- <br>
Mike <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------ <br>
<br>
Subject: Digest Footer <br>
<br>
-- <br>
Cave-Surveying <a
href="https://lists.survex.com/mailman/listinfo/cave-surveying"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">
https://lists.survex.com/mailman/listinfo/cave-surveying</a> <br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------ <br>
<br>
End of Cave-Surveying Digest, Vol 49, Issue 1 <br>
********************************************* <br>
<br>
-- <br>
Cave-Surveying <a
href="https://lists.survex.com/mailman/listinfo/cave-surveying"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">
https://lists.survex.com/mailman/listinfo/cave-surveying</a> <o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
</blockquote>
<div class="moz-signature"
signature-switch-id="ce3a8cbd-c381-4c7c-805e-a31d321a59c8">-- <br>
David Cooke<br>
Axbridge, Somerset, England </div>
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
</blockquote>
<div class="moz-signature"
signature-switch-id="ce3a8cbd-c381-4c7c-805e-a31d321a59c8">-- <br>
David Cooke<br>
Axbridge, Somerset, England
</div>
</body>
</html>