spud beasts

[Julian Todd]

Just my two bits continued because the whole 
discussion is too painful still.  I have three points to 
make and then I'll shut up again.  

1.  File format is ultimately of no relevance.  Everything 
about it is a hinderance.  

2.  The only thing that matters is the user interface.  

3.  The idea that you can design a good working 
interface (or even an entire program for that matter) 
theoretically before you start trying things out is 
pure fantasy.  


The improvements and extensions of the Survex format 
don't make it all that new.  I have in my hands readers 
for both the current and my revised format and they are not 
actually very different, Olly.  The improvements are all to do 
with removing commands (rather trivial), and the 
extensions are about introducing new types of objects 
other than legs (such as cross sections and tubes).  
I have demonstrated working examples of these 
features about which you have only talked.  This really 
ought to be worth something regardless of my lack 
of "god-like prescience".  

Yes, of course there will always be extensions in 
the future that you haven't thought about.  So what?  
Unless you have an example of at least one 
crucial one to justify a new format, the design 
will wind up directionless and merely be done for the hell of it.  

Whatever file format you choose you will still have the 
*export/*equate argument, and this piece of theory
has not been resolved.  It's quite a fundamental component, 
unless you attempt to bury it in a hailstorm of XML sheets.  


The point about Java is it is extraordinarily good for 
knocking together user interfaces.  It does not require 
a huge amount of expertise in different toolkits and 
fancy languages, and is pretty compact and well documented.  
It is ideal for experimenting with and changing 
possible user interfaces before, if you must, hard 
coding it (casting it into concrete) in experts-only C++ toolkits 
and such like.  

It is a demonstrable fact that most programmers 
don't focus as much as they should on user interfaces.  
Once they have been written with all their deficiencies they never 
get changed.  (And who gives a toss if the program's 
commands work very quickly if it is slow and tedious 
work for the human to call up those commands?)  

The user interface is often forgotten about for two 
reasons.  Firstly the code has been written in 
an environment which makes it hard to tinker 
about with, so there is not much pleasure in it.  
And secondly, programmers find that file formats 
are far more absorbing and interesting even though 
they make no difference to the user whatsoever.  

That's all for now, 
Julian T.