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    <p>Can we change the subject back to the original more meaningful
      one please?</p>
    <p>There, I've done it for you :-)</p>
    <p>Cheers</p>
    <p>Cookie<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 28/09/2023 14:56, Graham Mullan
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:LO2P123MB5016A2CE7F748A5DA90F476FAEC1A@LO2P123MB5016.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM">
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Blitz<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I
            very much doubt that FB would be suitable, quite apart from
            being unpalatable to some. I’m not on it, but I understand
            that it is structured more by their algorithms than by the
            form of the discussion that you wish to have.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Graham<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
          1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
              lang="EN-US"> Chris Smart <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:chris_smart@talktalk.net"><chris_smart@talktalk.net></a>
              <br>
              <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 28, 2023 2:43 PM<br>
              <b>To:</b> Graham Mullan <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:graham.mullan@coly.org.uk"><graham.mullan@coly.org.uk></a><br>
              <b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cave-surveying@survex.com">cave-surveying@survex.com</a><br>
              <b>Subject:</b> RE: Cave-Surveying Digest, Vol 49, Issue 1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">A thought - but maybe an unpalatable
            one.  A private FB group might be the/an answer.  The admin
            would be minimal and the postings would be searchable. <o:p></o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Blitz<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">On 28 Sept 2023 14:12, Graham Mullan
              <<a href="mailto:graham.mullan@coly.org.uk"
                moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">graham.mullan@coly.org.uk</a>>
              wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
            <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
              1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
              6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
              <p>How many subscribers are there? Is it likely that new
                subscribers can be found?
                <br>
                <br>
                Jeskynar asked what alternative places people use to
                talk about surveying and I think this is a key question.
                Email lists of this type are fairly poorly structured
                for ongoing discussions and archival searches and better
                alternatives are available. The problem is that any of
                the alternatives require the use of some proprietary
                software or 'walled garden' private services and I know
                that many of you have problems with that. I suspect that
                if that objection can be overcome then something like
                Discord might fulfil the brief rather better. <br>
                <br>
                Graham <br>
                <br>
                -----Original Message----- <br>
                From: Cave-Surveying <<a
                  href="mailto:cave-surveying-bounces@survex.com"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cave-surveying-bounces@survex.com</a>>
                On Behalf Of
                <a href="mailto:cave-surveying-request@survex.com"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cave-surveying-request@survex.com</a>
                <br>
                Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2023 12:00 PM <br>
                To: <a href="mailto:cave-surveying@survex.com"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cave-surveying@survex.com</a>
                <br>
                Subject: Cave-Surveying Digest, Vol 49, Issue 1 <br>
                <br>
                Send Cave-Surveying mailing list submissions to <br>
                <a href="mailto:cave-surveying@survex.com"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cave-surveying@survex.com</a>
                <br>
                <br>
                To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web,
                visit <br>
                <a
                  href="https://lists.survex.com/mailman/listinfo/cave-surveying"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.survex.com/mailman/listinfo/cave-surveying</a>
                <br>
                or, via email, send a message with subject or body
                'help' to <br>
                <a href="mailto:cave-surveying-request@survex.com"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cave-surveying-request@survex.com</a>
                <br>
                <br>
                You can reach the person managing the list at <br>
                <a href="mailto:cave-surveying-owner@survex.com"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cave-surveying-owner@survex.com</a>
                <br>
                <br>
                When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is
                more specific than "Re: Contents of Cave-Surveying
                digest..."
                <br>
                <br>
                <br>
                Today's Topics: <br>
                <br>
                   1. Should I shut down this list? (Olly Betts) <br>
                   2. Re: Should I shut down this list? (Andrew
                Atkinson) <br>
                   3. Re: Should I shut down this list? (Jeskynar) <br>
                   4. Re: Should I shut down this list? (Mike Lake) <br>
                <br>
                <br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------- <br>
                <br>
                Message: 1 <br>
                Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 00:09:45 +0100 <br>
                From: Olly Betts <<a href="mailto:olly@survex.com"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">olly@survex.com</a>>
                <br>
                To: <a href="mailto:cave-surveying@survex.com"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cave-surveying@survex.com</a>
                <br>
                Subject: Should I shut down this list? <br>
                Message-ID: <<a
                  href="mailto:20230927230945.GH3507@survex.com"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">20230927230945.GH3507@survex.com</a>>
                <br>
                Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii <br>
                <br>
                It seems this list is no longer being actively used -
                the archives show only one message in the last two
                years, but it's been in decline for much longer:
                <br>
                <br>
                * 2021 saw 2 threads (but one really belonged on the
                survex list) <br>
                <br>
                * 2020 saw 5 threads (but two really belonged on the
                survex list) <br>
                <br>
                * 2019 saw 4 threads (but one really belonged on the
                therion list) <br>
                <br>
                * 2018 saw 1 message <br>
                <br>
                * 2017 and 2016 saw no messages <br>
                <br>
                So really very little use for a long time (and ~30% of
                the use it sees would have been better sent to a more
                specific list instead).
                <br>
                <br>
                There's a small but non-zero admin effort to keeping the
                list running - messages from non-subscribers and
                subscription requests are held for checking and I have
                to periodically look over them and delete the vast
                majority as spam.  There seems to have been a
                significant uptick in subscription requests in the last
                month most of which look bogus, and this is making me
                wonder why I'm spending time on this.
                <br>
                <br>
                So is it really worth me keeping this list active? <br>
                <br>
                I know Wookey has mentioned wanting to use it more and
                has tried to encourage more people to subscribe, but
                that hasn't actually translated into people actually
                using it so seems to have been a failed idea.
                <br>
                <br>
                Cheers, <br>
                    Olly <br>
                <br>
                <br>
                <br>
                ------------------------------ <br>
                <br>
                Message: 2 <br>
                Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 08:09:42 +0200 <br>
                From: Andrew Atkinson <<a
                  href="mailto:andrew@wotcc.org.uk"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">andrew@wotcc.org.uk</a>>
                <br>
                To: <a href="mailto:cave-surveying@survex.com"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cave-surveying@survex.com</a>
                <br>
                Subject: Re: Should I shut down this list? <br>
                Message-ID: <<a
                  href="mailto:C7E17D3E-5215-4988-A0E6-10627DEDE37E@wotcc.org.uk"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">C7E17D3E-5215-4988-A0E6-10627DEDE37E@wotcc.org.uk</a>>
                <br>
                Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 <br>
                <br>
                I tend to use the list to announce cave surveying group
                meetings and publish minutes. Both of which have not
                happened for the last few years due to there being no
                Hidden Earth.
                <br>
                <br>
                It would be a shame not to have it, but it doesn't
                really look like there is much justification for keeping
                it
                <br>
                <br>
                Andrew <br>
                -- <br>
                <br>
                <br>
                <br>
                ------------------------------ <br>
                <br>
                Message: 3 <br>
                Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 08:20:03 +0100 <br>
                From: Jeskynar <<a href="mailto:jeskynar@gmail.com"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jeskynar@gmail.com</a>>
                <br>
                To: <a href="mailto:cave-surveying@survex.com"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cave-surveying@survex.com</a>
                <br>
                Subject: Re: Should I shut down this list? <br>
                Message-ID: <br>
                <<a
href="mailto:CAJ8UCwW=KWVsdh+gAPYQYStGP4EX_gJfDc5uej2KYGG9OYNZHA@mail.gmail.com"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">CAJ8UCwW=KWVsdh+gAPYQYStGP4EX_gJfDc5uej2KYGG9OYNZHA@mail.gmail.com</a>>
                <br>
                Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" <br>
                <br>
                What's the alternative place where people talk about
                cave surveying? <br>
                <br>
                On Thu, 28 Sept 2023 at 00:10, Olly Betts <<a
                  href="mailto:olly@survex.com" moz-do-not-send="true"
                  class="moz-txt-link-freetext">olly@survex.com</a>>
                wrote:
                <br>
                <br>
                > It seems this list is no longer being actively used
                - the archives <br>
                > show only one message in the last two years, but
                it's been in decline <br>
                > for much longer: <br>
                > <br>
                > * 2021 saw 2 threads (but one really belonged on
                the survex list) <br>
                > <br>
                > * 2020 saw 5 threads (but two really belonged on
                the survex list) <br>
                > <br>
                > * 2019 saw 4 threads (but one really belonged on
                the therion list) <br>
                > <br>
                > * 2018 saw 1 message <br>
                > <br>
                > * 2017 and 2016 saw no messages <br>
                > <br>
                > So really very little use for a long time (and ~30%
                of the use it sees <br>
                > would have been better sent to a more specific list
                instead). <br>
                > <br>
                > There's a small but non-zero admin effort to
                keeping the list running <br>
                > - messages from non-subscribers and subscription
                requests are held for <br>
                > checking and I have to periodically look over them
                and delete the vast <br>
                > majority as spam.  There seems to have been a
                significant uptick in <br>
                > subscription requests in the last month most of
                which look bogus, and <br>
                > this is making me wonder why I'm spending time on
                this. <br>
                > <br>
                > So is it really worth me keeping this list active?
                <br>
                > <br>
                > I know Wookey has mentioned wanting to use it more
                and has tried to <br>
                > encourage more people to subscribe, but that hasn't
                actually <br>
                > translated into people actually using it so seems
                to have been a <br>
                > failed idea. <br>
                > <br>
                > Cheers, <br>
                >     Olly <br>
                > <br>
                > -- <br>
                > Cave-Surveying <br>
                > <a
                  href="https://lists.survex.com/mailman/listinfo/cave-surveying"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.survex.com/mailman/listinfo/cave-surveying</a>
                <br>
                > <br>
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                <br>
                <br>
                ------------------------------ <br>
                <br>
                Message: 4 <br>
                Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 20:25:55 +1000 <br>
                From: Mike Lake <<a
                  href="mailto:mikel@speleonics.com.au"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">mikel@speleonics.com.au</a>>
                <br>
                To: <a href="mailto:cave-surveying@survex.com"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cave-surveying@survex.com</a>
                <br>
                Subject: Re: Should I shut down this list? <br>
                Message-ID: <<a
                  href="mailto:e875b4ef8fc765cdba226c8744d6cb0d@speleonics.com.au"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">e875b4ef8fc765cdba226c8744d6cb0d@speleonics.com.au</a>>
                <br>
                Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII;
                format=flowed <br>
                <br>
                Hi Olly <br>
                <br>
                I read the list and yes, I have not seen much on it at
                all. <br>
                I can understand your wish to not maintain it. It does
                take time. <br>
                I gather the alternative would a 3rd party hosted, web
                based one. A shame as I prefer plain email, but I do
                understand that the email volume here does not justify
                the work involved.
                <br>
                A shame but I won't winge if you shut it down. <br>
                <br>
                Best wishes <br>
                Mike <br>
                <br>
                On 2023-09-28 9:09 am, Olly Betts wrote: <br>
                > It seems this list is no longer being actively used
                - the archives <br>
                > show only one message in the last two years, but
                it's been in decline <br>
                > for much longer: <br>
                > <br>
                > * 2021 saw 2 threads (but one really belonged on
                the survex list) <br>
                > <br>
                > * 2020 saw 5 threads (but two really belonged on
                the survex list) <br>
                > <br>
                > * 2019 saw 4 threads (but one really belonged on
                the therion list) <br>
                > <br>
                > * 2018 saw 1 message <br>
                > <br>
                > * 2017 and 2016 saw no messages <br>
                > <br>
                > So really very little use for a long time (and ~30%
                of the use it sees <br>
                > would have been better sent to a more specific list
                instead). <br>
                > <br>
                > There's a small but non-zero admin effort to
                keeping the list running <br>
                > - messages from non-subscribers and subscription
                requests are held for <br>
                > checking and I have to periodically look over them
                and delete the vast <br>
                > majority as spam.  There seems to have been a
                significant uptick in <br>
                > subscription requests in the last month most of
                which look bogus, and <br>
                > this is making me wonder why I'm spending time on
                this. <br>
                > <br>
                > So is it really worth me keeping this list active?
                <br>
                > <br>
                > I know Wookey has mentioned wanting to use it more
                and has tried to <br>
                > encourage more people to subscribe, but that hasn't
                actually <br>
                > translated into people actually using it so seems
                to have been a <br>
                > failed idea. <br>
                > <br>
                > Cheers, <br>
                >     Olly <br>
                <br>
                -- <br>
                Mike <br>
                <br>
                <br>
                <br>
                ------------------------------ <br>
                <br>
                Subject: Digest Footer <br>
                <br>
                -- <br>
                Cave-Surveying <a
                  href="https://lists.survex.com/mailman/listinfo/cave-surveying"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">
https://lists.survex.com/mailman/listinfo/cave-surveying</a> <br>
                <br>
                <br>
                ------------------------------ <br>
                <br>
                End of Cave-Surveying Digest, Vol 49, Issue 1 <br>
                ********************************************* <br>
                <br>
                -- <br>
                Cave-Surveying <a
                  href="https://lists.survex.com/mailman/listinfo/cave-surveying"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">
https://lists.survex.com/mailman/listinfo/cave-surveying</a> <o:p></o:p></p>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
    </blockquote>
    <div class="moz-signature"
      signature-switch-id="ce3a8cbd-c381-4c7c-805e-a31d321a59c8">-- <br>
      David Cooke<br>
      Axbridge, Somerset, England
    </div>
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